• Welcome to the Lightroom Queen Forums! We're a friendly bunch, so please feel free to register and join in the conversation. If you're not familiar with forums, you'll find step by step instructions on how to post your first thread under Help at the bottom of the page. You're also welcome to download our free Lightroom Quick Start eBooks and explore our other FAQ resources.
  • Stop struggling with Lightroom! There's no need to spend hours hunting for the answers to your Lightroom Classic questions. All the information you need is in Adobe Lightroom Classic - The Missing FAQ!

    To help you get started, there's a series of easy tutorials to guide you through a simple workflow. As you grow in confidence, the book switches to a conversational FAQ format, so you can quickly find answers to advanced questions. And better still, the eBooks are updated for every release, so it's always up to date.
  • Dark mode now has a single preference for the whole site! It's a simple toggle switch in the bottom right-hand corner of any page. As it uses a cookie to store your preference, you may need to dismiss the cookie banner before you can see it. Any problems, please let us know!

Creative Cloud only?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Hutch

Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
37
Location
Maryville, TN 37803
Lightroom Experience
Intermediate
Lightroom Version
With today's announcement by Adobe about the Creative Cloud, does that mean that to get LR5 you'll have to be a subscriber to the Creative Cloud and that it will not be available as a standalone purchase or upgrade?
 
Victoria,

I can see where you're coming from. I spent a couple of hours on Scott Kelby's site this afternoon reading all those posts slagging him (with some justice) for being an Adobe shill. It's a tough time to say anything publicly that appears to be pro-Adobe. It's good that you can maintain your neutrality.

I've bought the last six or so versions of Photoshop, even though I hardly use it at all. I like shiny, new software, and I was able to convince myself that upgrading made sense, and eventually I'd get around to doing something that justified the expense. Having to run PS as a subscription just doesn't feel the same, even if it would cost the same, which it won't. So I won't be going to the Cloud version, and I'll finally save the money that I should have been saving all along. :(

If I had a real need for the latest and greatest, I'd subscribe, but with what I need in terms of non-LR post-processing, it would feel like I was just flushing that money down the drain. I'm sure that CS6 will do me well until it will no longer run on whatever computer I'm using, at which point I'll see what's available to replace it with.

In the meantime, I'll need to convince myself that if I lose the ability to run Photoshop, I'll be able to use the TIFFs or PSDs that I produced with it. Will GIMP read TIFFs with layers? I don't know, but I'll find out. Maybe by that time, PSE will handle 16-bit (or more) images, and I could use that, but I can't know that from here.

The real fly in the ointment would be if Adobe decided to no longer sell some future Lightroom with a perpetual license. They probably can't hold my images ransom, but they definitely could do that with my catalogue. We'd all be put in one heck of a bind, with no real recourse but to subscribe. I don't trust them not to do it, and I don't know what I need to do to make it so I can feel OK about the possibility that they will. Trusting them to do the right thing by their users is no longer a viable strategy.

I'm not panicking, and I'm not about to make any quick changes to how I use LR or do my post-processing. I'll buy LR 5 when it comes out, and if future versions are still sold as programs, I'll buy those as well, but I'll also be looking at other DAM solutions, just in case.

Hal

I agree 100% with you Hal. I am sticking with CS5, I did not see a reason to upgrade to CS6 and I very rarely use CS5. I also will continue to use and by perpetual licenses of Lightroom as long as I can, or until something better comes along.

I also see the current situation with Adobe and the creative cloud to be the possible beginning of a new and exciting era filled with more alternatives to Photoshop and probably Lightroom. Real competition would be a good thing for Adobe and for photographers. Maybe Adobe will improve Elements to contain ALL of the elements of Photoshop that are utilized by photographers (16 bit layers, 32 bit HDR, smart objects, etc).
 
Yeah, I said before this went live, that a lot of photographers would be just as well off by sticking with CS6 for now, and the continued support is a nod to that choice.

Adobe are going to have to do something to convince most photographers to upgrade/subscribe, but I think that's the best result possible for photographers, because it's going to keep pushing them forward.

A lot of things are going to change in the next couple of years, not just at Adobe but with loads of other developers wanting a piece of the pie. Now's not the time to be making decisions about future software purchases. Lightroom 5's a good upgrade, but if you're not sold on the cloud, I wouldn't rush to do anything about Photoshop at the moment. It still works perfectly well, and it's supported for some time to come. By the time that's no longer an option, Adobe may have something better, or other developers may be the best bet, but it's too soon to tell.

Lightroom's pretty safe for the foreseeable future. The market's different, and they wouldn't be able to get away with changes like this for Lightroom users. For the Creative Cloud, the majority of the userbase are creative pros who actually benefit from the new deal (it really is a good deal for them!), so most of them will quite happily sign up. If they tried the same thing with Lightroom or Elements, they'd wipe out most of their userbase. So I really don't believe we have reason for concern.
 
Thanks Jim for your reply, I'll have to stick with CS5 anyway. Looking at the Adobe site, it appears that they have withdrawn the offer to upgrade from CS5 to 6 - no trace of it anywhere. Even Amazon are showing 'out of stock'. As I do most of my work within Lightroom, I'll be ok with CS5 for the times that I need PS. I have to say that Adobe's approach is a strange way to look after a loyal customer base.

Thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread - very informative.
 
You are correct Victoria. I don't know what to do for the best now - stick with CS5 or upgrade. I would normally upgrade just to keep within the ruling from Adobe in that we could only upgrade from the previous version. Seeing that they are to cease actually selling newer versions, I may just stop at CS5. Thanks anyway.
 
I was somewhat surprised by the CC only announcement as I had upgraded to CS6 in April following a marketing mail from Adobe. Today I decided to see if Customer Services would help out.
Below is the chat conversation I had with a representative I have taken his name and my personal details out other than that it is as it happened. The waiting between answers while he “checked” was considerable and I was chatting for about a hour.

All representatives are actively assisting other customers. There are 1 customer(s) in line ahead of you. Thank you for your
patience.
You are now chatting with Rep.
Rep: Hello! Welcome to Adobe Customer Service.
Rep: Hi Jeremy, Nice to have you on chat!
Rep: May I please have your email address registered with Adobe?
Jeremy ?@.com
Rep: Thank you for the email address.
Rep: I understand that you want to concert the CS5.5 to subscription product, am I correct?
Jeremy: No I have just purchased CS6 but obviously I would not have if I had known about the CC 12 month subscription at the discounted price. I would like a to convert a refund into a CC sub.
Rep: Please give me couple of more minutes, let me check what best I can do.
Jeremy: ok
Rep: Thank you.
Rep: Jeremy, you can purchase the CCM complete product in $19.99 or any point product in $9.99. This offer is applicable for those customer who has purchased CS6.
Jeremy: Yes but I could have got that with 5.5 without upgrading which I did in response to a marketing offer by Adobe just before they announced CC
Rep: Thank you for waiting. One moment please.
Rep: With CS5.5, the price would be 29.99 USD/EUR, for CS6, Its $19.99 .
Jeremy: Not according to your pricing plan on the Adobe site its 9.99 for any PS from CS3 up.
Rep: Yes, you are correct, however that is only for a point product subscription, the above information was for creative cloud complete product.
Jeremy: I bought PSCS6 for 188.19 just before you offer it at 8.78 a month
Jeremy: https://creative.adobe.com/plans
Jeremy: To get CC I now have to subscribe but I did not need to buy CS6
Rep: Yes, you are correct and that offer is given to those customer who already purchased CS6.
Jeremy: That is also offered to CS5.5 as well so I need not have spent 188.19
Rep: Do you have CS5.5?
Jeremy: Yes the 188.19 was for the upgrade to CS6
Rep: May I have the order number or the serial number please?
Jeremy: Order Number #AD00????????UK Products ordered: Adobe Photoshop CS6 (Mac,English)
Product Serial Number Adobe Photoshop CS6 (Mac,English) ??
Rep: May I have the order number or the serial number of CS5.5?
Jeremy: On 3 September 2011Order number: AD000?????UK Products ordered: Qty Product 1 Adobe Photoshop
CS5 (Mac,English) Total purchase amount: £328.80
Jeremy: It was boxed so do not have serial to hand
Rep: I have checked and see that #AD000?????UK has been cancelled.
Jeremy: How could that happen? does this happen when its upgraded?
Jeremy: I will find the box - give me a minute
Rep: Please give me 2 minutes, let me check it for you.
Jeremy: serial number: 1???-0???
Rep: Please give me couple of more minutes, I am checking it for you.
Jeremy: ok but I have the physical box in front of me so definitely not cancelled
Rep: Sorry for the wait. Please do stay online.
Jeremy: still here
Rep: Thank you.
Rep: Please allow me some more time.
Jeremy: I have a client meeting in the next couple of minutes. Can you email me a solution please.
Rep: Please give me 1 minutes.
Rep: I am sorry, this one is the best offer we have, we do not have any other offer.
Jeremy: Please ask a supervisor - I will be posting this conversation on a forum but will remove your name. Why is Adobe trying to rip off loyal customers - I would subscribe but find it invidious that you take my money just before a major change which would be better value for your customer. Let them know - another unhappy customer


I would quite happily have subscribed to access new features going forward in PS (in fact I do not think there is a real alternative in the long term) but I am stunned by their arrogance and greed in not recognising they have extracted money from me under false pretences! I expect there will be others in this leaky boat.
 
CS6 would give you the advantage of Edit in Photoshop direct compatibility, and a promise of updates to the next Windows/Mac OS. But on the other hand, it really does depend on how much you use it, as to whether it's worthwhile. To be honest, if you're not in a rush, I simply wouldn't make a decision about Photoshop yet. We haven't seen Adobe's response yet, so there may yet be something better in the works.
 
Hi Victoria. I just noticed on the introductory offer of $9.99 for single app that it says "limited access to services". Do you know what won't be available with this plan? Just thought I would point this out in case someone hasn't noticed that caveat before signing up.:whistling:
Diane
 
Where are you seeing that Diane? I'll find out, but there's nothing Photoshop related that I'm aware of, so it may apply to other programs.
 
Just checking out the NASDAQ for Adobe -Systems Inc. (ADBE). The share price is starting to drop - only slightly at present - but looks as though the city analysts are getting jumpy about this move. It was actually mooted to the city back in March when Adobe registered $1.01 Billion in sales in the first fiscal quarter that on line for $4.1 Billion this year- (did you know the measure of Billion in the UK has now been downgraded to lesser value USA version http://oxforddictionaries.com/words/how-many-is-a-billion) . These are still record sales figures. Their share Prices has virtually doubled in the last year [29.52 low -47.17 High] Yet Adobe are citing Piracy is harming their business ??? Adobe were also citing they had 500,000 confirmed cloud users back as far a March so we cannot really claim this was a shock move. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...fit-tops-estimates-on-web-software-sales.html

This move is purely about evening out the fluctuations in Adobes cash flow which was previously controlled by Product Release Cycles. Its purely a business decision. So why cannot Adobe be open and honest with people instead of trying to dress this up as some sort of product improvement cycle... Adobe should remember " You can fool some of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time". Customer loyalty counts for nothing to any of them so no point in our trying to appeal to their "better nature" as they simply don't have one. They have one measure and that's the "bottom line".

Bear in mind investment in Adobe has historically been controlled by the Product Cycle with speculators piling in ahead of the new release bonanza and leaving after they realise their profits. Adobe have done this at the top of the investment cycle so when the speculators realise this will be the last bonanza – the milk cow has gone dry – they could as easily pile out. Long term profits are not that attractive to speculators. Only time will tell - who knows my new boxed version of CS6 may well prove to be a collectors item one day if Adobe's brave gamble fails...
 
Found it Diane. That's just referring to some of the online services, not Photoshop itself.
 
Just checking out the NASDAQ for Adobe -Systems Inc. (ADBE). The share price is starting to drop - only slightly at present - but looks as though the city analysts are getting jumpy about this move. It was actually mooted to the city back in March when Adobe registered $1.01 Billion in sales in the first fiscal quarter that on line for $4.1 Billion this year- (did you know the measure of Billion in the UK has now been downgraded to lesser value USA version http://oxforddictionaries.com/words/how-many-is-a-billion) . These are still record sales figures. Their share Prices has virtually doubled in the last year [29.52 low -47.17 High] Yet Adobe are citing Piracy is harming their business ??? Adobe were also citing they had 500,000 confirmed cloud users back as far a March so we cannot really claim this was a shock move. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...fit-tops-estimates-on-web-software-sales.html

This move is purely about evening out the fluctuations in Adobes cash flow which was previously controlled by Product Release Cycles. Its purely a business decision. So why cannot Adobe be open and honest with people instead of trying to dress this up as some sort of product improvement cycle... Adobe should remember " You can fool some of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time". Customer loyalty counts for nothing to any of them so no point in our trying to appeal to their "better nature" as they simply don't have one. They have one measure and that's the "bottom line".

Bear in mind investment in Adobe has historically been controlled by the Product Cycle with speculators piling in ahead of the new release bonanza and leaving after they realise their profits. Adobe have done this at the top of the investment cycle so when the speculators realise this will be the last bonanza – the milk cow has gone dry – they could as easily pile out. Long term profits are not that attractive to speculators. Only time will tell - who knows my new boxed version of CS6 may well prove to be a collectors item one day if Adobe's brave gamble fails...
Good news!

Let's hope they really get a hit. I'm sure they listen more to the stock market then their customers...
 
I was somewhat surprised by the CC only announcement as I had upgraded to CS6 in April following a marketing mail from Adobe. Today I decided to see if Customer Services would help out.
Below is the chat conversation I had with a representative I have taken his name and my personal details out other than that it is as it happened. The waiting between answers while he “checked” was considerable and I was chatting for about a hour.

[snip]

I would quite happily have subscribed to access new features going forward in PS (in fact I do not think there is a real alternative in the long term) but I am stunned by their arrogance and greed in not recognising they have extracted money from me under false pretences! I expect there will be others in this leaky boat.

If you bought CS 6 in the last 30 days I'd give it another go if I was you as the Adobe FAQ clearly states that

[FONT=adobe-clean, sans-serif]I just purchased CS6 but want to switch to Creative Cloud. Can I return it?[/FONT]

If you bought directly from Adobe within the last 30 days, you can contact
Customer Service to return the product. Any product purchased from a seller other than Adobe may only be returned to that seller, in accordance with the seller's return policy.

It's still a cheek to refuse to let anyone who upgraded from PS CS 5 to 6 not to be able to convert to CC without being out of pocket regardless when they bought PS CS6
 
Oooooooh now that sounds more interesting Sverre!!!
 
Glad to say I persevered with Customer Support and they have refunded the CS5.5 to CS6 upgrade and substituted the PSCC £8.78 per month subscription. Much better experience than before - maybe they have got their act together. I can now have rounder circles.
 
Wow! I can't believe I read the whole thing. ;)

Neat stuff, if it comes to pass. I'd love to see it.

If nothing else, one gets the treat of seeing Jeff Schewe insisting on polite discourse. :)

Hal
 
http://www.dpreview.com/news/2013/05/15/adobe-lightroom-5-beta-google-hangout

Sort of a definitive answer to the will they won't they question regarding LR and the subscription model. In a small way I'm almost a little disappointed as I'm quite taken with the rolling update concept. It might have worked quite nicely with LR. Still photographers aren't graphic designers so maybe standalone with occasional big updates and the choice of when and if to upgrade is best?
 
http://www.dpreview.com/news/2013/05/15/adobe-lightroom-5-beta-google-hangout

Sort of a definitive answer to the will they won't they question regarding LR and the subscription model. In a small way I'm almost a little disappointed as I'm quite taken with the rolling update concept. It might have worked quite nicely with LR. Still photographers aren't graphic designers so maybe standalone with occasional big updates and the choice of when and if to upgrade is best?
The statement
Adobe has, 'no plans to make Lightroom subscription-only at any point in the future.'
is not the same as "Adobe will never make plans to make Lightroom subscription-only at any point in the future."
So I would not say that this is definitive about LR beyond the short term.
 
Well we'll agree to disagree then.

Basically we have no plans to make Lightroom subscription-only at any point in the future. We have plans to make Lightroom available in its current form pretty much indefinitely

works for me a lot better than a lot of ill informed chatter in various forums and blogs. No company ever says "We will never......" as it would be dumb to do so. Who knows, in twenty years all Adobes competition might offer subscription based software only and we might be loving it? Where would Adobe be then if they'd stated that they would NEVER do likewise? None of can say for certain how the future will unfold or how we'll be taking and processing images in the distant future. So for Adobe to make some definitive statement that something will never happen is dumb. How long would we hold them to it? Ten years? A hundred? A thousand. Never implies for all eternity, so it's nonsense for a company working in any field to say 'never' about the future of their products and services.

I'll happily admit I'm completely wrong about Lightroom as soon as someone presents some compelling evidence that Adobe might well make it a subscription based application in the future. In the absence of these 'facts' I'll keep my logical head on and work on the assumption that Lightroom will remain subscription based "pretty much indefinitely" and get on with my life.
 
Tom's just updated his blog post. It says:
Q. Will Lightroom become a subscription only offering after Lightroom 5?
A. Future versions of Lightroom will be made available via traditional perpetual licenses indefinitely.

You can debate the definition of indefinitely, and I'm sure people will, but I think it's as definite as they can get. They can't use the word forever as they can't foresee the future any more than we can.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top